> As you've been dragging my name up a few times in your recent postings
> I'll
> add my $.02 to this unecessary discussion.
yes, very "unecessary discussion." you want to have!
> Personally I see it like this: Sure, /etc/dovecot.conf certainly could
> have
> been marked config/noreplace. BUT: If *you* (i.e.: Zeffie) distribute
> software that modifies the system - ANY system for that matter - then you
> have to know exactly what you're doing and which loose ends you might run
> into.
Well after building thousands of rpms over the years I do know what I'm
doing rather well thank you, And I don't think you are someone with
anything close to that level of experience to dis-credit my work....
Normally that's what a user group is for... see redhat/fedora/debian/etc...
All people working together and pointing out bugs and other things...
however it seems in this user group the only test boxes or testing users
seem to be on production boxes... And yourself as a so-called developer
has done nothing in this area either. So I have to do my own testing
without the expectation of getting any help.. and sure it's possible little
things like the rare chance that someone is actually using ssl. can sneak up
and be a problem. The real problem however is that the rpm was never made
right to begin with. and there is no getting around that.
Since this is only hate mail from you, I'm not going to discuss the ways I
could of worked around this problem since thats not what this is really
about... But I will say this is a good example of why a pkg should be used
and not just a rpm...
> When you provide updates that don't take the stock configuration into
> account
> as it is present on that server, then I see this as a lack of testing.
All my work is based off the stock configuration of the current cd. Testing
was done on a fresh install (install repeated between every test)
> Especially as you could have adressed any adverse side effects which the
> absence of config/noreplace might cause with just a few lines of extra
> scripting in your RPM.
I went over the entire conf file and made it as close to the origional as
possible. The replacement /updated conf needed to be put into place and the
old removed in order to fix the problem this thread is about...
> If something worked before (like SSL for Dovecot) and your update breaks
> it,
> then blaming someone else for this oversight is certainly not the right
> way
> to go.
>
> To quote your own words from [cobalt-users]:
>
>> updates should be tested on devel boxes as needed...
Again: Testing was done on a fresh install (install repeated between every
test) unfortunatly not you or anybody else is or was willing to test
anything and honestly this was your chance to get in and discuss it... but
for some reason in this case you can't add anything more but a mean spirited
letter attacking me when you yourself could of tested it and reported the
problem like Ken did. At this point Ken is the only one to participate in
any user level testing and bug discovery. You on the other hand are about
to tell me how insulting I am when all I did was point out where the problem
came from...
> In that case:
>
> dovecot-1.0.12-1.0.Z1.centos4.Zeffie.com.BQ.i386.rpm
> "This breaks the dovecot SSL connection on port 995"
>
> = I'm sorry, in that case I'd rate his as: FAIL.
Very nice participation... perhaps you would like to write a cce program to
check and see if pop and imap ssl is turned on instead of writing mean
spirited letters like this one. if anyone makes an update for it in the
future they will need it and it would take less code and time then this post
of yours... or mine too unfortunatly thanks to you.
>> It's my understanding that Hsiao was paid by turbo Linux to build it for
>> them.. As far as I know Brian just made the cd and I'm not aware of
>> anything major or on the same scale that Michael has done...
>
> Oh, I certainly haven't contributed as much code to the BlueQuartz SVN as
> Hisao or Brian have. There is absolutely no doubt about it. Especially as
> I
> asked for and got commit access to the SVN only like a couple of months
> ago.
>
> Who contributed what to BlueQuartz is easily verified by checking the SVN
> logs
> at this URL: http://bluequartz.org/trac/log/ as it shows a brief summary
> of
> the changes, when the update was submitted and who checked the code change
> in.
>
> That you talk Brian's contributions down to "Brian [...] just made the cd"
> is
I don't feel I've done any such thing. All I'm doing is participating in a
user group as I can.
and read this again.. and notice "major or on the same scale"
>> them.. As far as I know Brian just made the cd and I'm not aware of
>> anything major or on the same scale that Michael has done...
> easily proven as utterly wrong by checking the SVN logs at the URL above.
> Brian's name shows quite frequently there, does it not? You said "as far
> as
> you know", which *could* be an indication about how little you may know
> about
> the state of the code in question or the project in general.
I've been on this list for a long time... You have no idea what I know and
your not going to get a disscussion about the patches brian or you have
added.
> Either that, or it is what most people will perceive it for: A quite
> transparent attempt at lessening the contributions of individual
> developers
> to elevate your own contributions to the BlueQuartz SVN. Which are like
> ...
> zero? Correct me please if I'm wrong on that.
that dosen't make any sense.. I can't "elevate" something that dosen't
exist... but face the fact that you guys are just waiting on code to be
written for you and your bussinesses where you have products to sell. You
have a vested interest in this.. I don't... I have a little website and a
bunch of yum repos that only my customers are using and I'm thinking now I
just might make the whole thing free.
> And no, it's not because "we
> wouldn't let you". It's because you didn't ask. Instead of suggesting
> changes, offering coding time or asking what you could contribute you
> emailed
> threats to developers offlist whilst trying to play us out against each
> other - both off list and on the list. This kind of strategy is
> called "divide and conquer" and its not working well in a close knit
> community such as this.
Wrong again.. I'm not in the "divide and conquer" bussiness and yes I do
take things offlist and so far your the only one I ever e-mailed with a less
then friendly letter and that was after you insulted me onlist more then
once. I took the argument offlist where it belonged in the first place!
Now correct me if I'm wrong (OFFLIST) but don't I need to contact more then
one person to divide you from someone else?
Secondly... I wouldn't even ask or offer my work to the real BQ developers
untill I felt it was 100%. and in the case of this thread, that work was
untested in a group setting and therefore would not qualify to be added in
my book. Asking to add it without group testing would be just plain wrong
in my book...
How do you expect me to contribute anything when all you do is waste my time
with long letters instead of participating in the testing or developement of
work that is important to everyone here.? I haven't heard one bug or
comment from you about any of the items I have posted except be very afraid
of rpm's from other people! It might have bad results with our personal
product!
> From your posting [coba-e:12205]:
>> Also..
>> These updates are not intended for anyone selling BQ servers or operating
>> systems. If you would like to use these updates for servers you rent out
>> or in any "paid for" BQ product you should contact me for a site or
>> system
>> license... This means if you sell/lease servers running BQ and you want
>> to
>> update them, You should contact me first...
>>
>> If you just want to install this on your own server or if you have less
>> then 5 servers where you sell webhosting, it's free...
>
> Code that is in the BlueQuartz SVN or in the BlueQuartz.org YUM repository
> has
> no such strings attached. It is released under Sun BSD which gives all
> users
> the greatest deal of leeway what they can do with it and how they use it.
>
> Code that is in the BlueQuartz YUM repository has been and is written with
> updateability to 5106R/5200R (BlueQuartz on CentOS5) in mind to make sure
> that those future updates won't cause conflicts. So I don't really see why
> anyone using BlueQuartz to build and sell servers or who rents out servers
> or
> who uses BlueQuartz in any commercial fashion would use the updates you
> rolled up and anounced here. Unless they were misled or willingly want to
> take easily forseeable and quite avoidable risks.
Again.. Try to have more then a mean spirited outlook and your comments are
baseless and lack technical merit.
> According to the rules of this mailing list (see
> http://bluequartz.org/ml/index.html ) "All postings [on this list] must be
> free of copyright restrictions that limit distribution". Your statement as
> shown above could be viewed as a violation of these rules as you *are*
> indeed
> limiting the distribution.
>
> Furthermore the rules of this list state: "Advertisements are not
> appropriate.
> This includes, but is not limited to, announcements of new personal
> products
> and free trials by those who stand to gain from such announcements.",
> which
> your anouncement also may easily run into conflict with.
>
Well your right there.. and and you might guess that was directed towards
you and towards Chris Gebhardt due to the "Comments that are intended only
to enrage the recipient " (i.e. me) that you have both posted in various
places. And there are no copyright restrictions aside from the Licence from
each developer which I have no control over anyway..
It's also very interesting that you say all this about how brian
contributes, but when it comes down to it the cd is nothing more then a
personal product since he has refused to me to release the src.rpms used in
the install process... If he did it wouldn't be a personal product and
anybody could build custom cd's... but at this point I would say it's
definatly a personal product since he has refused!
> Lets look at your reply to Brian in [coba-e:12197]:
>> Last I checked this was the BlueQuartz list and if you feel your work is
>> perfect, I would suggest you fork off.
>
> Instead of pointing Brian - whose contributions to the community are
> without
> any question or doubt very well known - towards the door, you should take
> note that you are violating a third rule of this mailing list, which
> states: "Personal attacks such as name calling and personal insults will
> not
> be tolerated. Comments that are intended only to enrage the recipient or
> others rather than contribute to thoughtful discussion are prohibited.
Well when people blantely lie in a public forum it bothers me and I'll
always be happy to point that out.
But that comment which included a disclamer which you have chosen to
disregaurd and to use as a base it give me crap is simply a Personal attack
against me and nothing more... I ment nothing offensive by that comment...
and BTW, you really need to stop telling people how to act.
> " If I
> had to judge this, then I'd rate telling Brian to "fork off" after all
> he's
> done for the project is certainly neither thoughtful, nor productive, but
> quite an insult.
>
> Jeff, you can't on one hand hide behind the rules of this mailing list
> when
> someone disagrees with you and then willingly violate other parts of said
> rules as if they don't apply to you.
I can't help but notice your using my proper name! You are very aware that
I go by Zeffie and I can only assume this is yet another attempt to
a. make a personal attack
b. intended only to enrage the recipient i.e. me
> Could you please read http://bluequartz.org/ml/index.html again and make
> sure
> that your future postings on this list are in accordance with it?
> Michael Stauber
As soon as you stop these personal attacks and adhere to the rules I'll be
glad to.
This is the last time I'm going to play nice with you and your mean spirited
comments. If you have only this type of non-related offensive comments to
make then I suggest you keep your fingers shut... I have neither the time
or the desire to respond to you and your (I won't say it publicly) ways. if
you can't participate in a technical discussion then please don't
participate by posting offensive material such as this... You comments are
mostly unfounded and are a waste of time to me.
This has been 4 hours of wasted time for me and I'm sure it will waste
others time to! Can this please be the last onlist flame form you? And
please.. I'm not looking to continue this thread in this direction any
further... If you or anybody else have any more rude comments to make then
please send them to /dev/null as they are only disruptive and a waste of
everybody's time..
--
Zeffie...
http://www.zeffie.com/
Now I build it and You surf it!
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